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Published Oct 15, 21
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I desire to offer you all a break for a moment and also transform to Mr. Swartz. Generally, we would have had two panels, but we didn't recognize just how the Senate would be operating today, so in an effort to make sure we obtained with all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your testimony and your statements that the treaty with Bermuda additionally pierces bank privacy and also provides a system for us getting the details we require. There have actually been some mutual legal support treaties which contain provisions relevant straight to sharing financial institution documents or other financial details.

That was an arrangement that was prepared and also taken on in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, stipulation's possible for the requesting party asking for celebration information as to whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for nation in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member asked forParticipant Afterwards, the request, if there is an identification of an account, have to be followed up via a typical mutual legal aid treaty.

And also with respect to Bermuda, our document of collaboration has been excellent. Our company believe that the record we have on the production of documents, including bank documents, is such that we are confident that the stipulations consisted of in this mutual lawful help treaty, which do require teamwork on the manufacturing of records, will certainly be sufficient to make sure that we acquire the records we need for our economic examinations and various other investigations.

Some various other MLATs likewise enable for urgent, non-written kind requests to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Legal Help Treaty does require demands in written kind, it was the judgment of the mediators that it sufficed that, in this situation, with respect to Bermuda, we would be able to obtain prompt actions to our requests and likewise offer such feedbacks to Bermuda's requests, particularly due to the fact that we have a technique already established that will continue, we think, under the treaty of being able to convey those requests via email or with fax.

Legislator Cardin. Was this, basically, a choice made by U.S. mediators, that it was not required, knowing exactly how we can rapidly obtain faxes and also e-mails sent? Is that fair enough to claim, or otherwise? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can assist on that particular one? Legislator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that due to the fact that they desired to ensure that the demands were clear as well as in a more formal method. In the negotiations, it likewise became clear that they approved that such request could be made by fax or by e-mail. The genuine concern they were worried concerning was not finding a rapid means to make a demand, however actually simply taking oral demands off the table.

So we're positive that we have actually obtained the methods in position that we can make immediate demands of them in a manner that will be reliable. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I could add, actually, while it is a benefit to be able to make oral demands, in method, it's extremely rare that we do so.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of remarks on the financial institution records issue? Mr. Johnson.

The difference in between being able to do a dental demand or having the ability to utilize one of these other extremely fast ways, we assume, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There've been some issues raised concerning the competence of Bermuda law with regard to forfeits of proceeds and also instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Of course, the development of forfeit law is an essential and also progressive issue. We have actually seen a variety of modifications throughout the years, consisting of below in the United States. The Common Lawful Assistance Treaty in Article 17 does obligate Bermuda to give assistance to the United States in proceedings relating to loss of proceeds and agencies of criminal offense, to the level allowed by the regulation of Bermuda.

We've had two examples of effective requests for restriction as well as forfeit of possessions. Both circumstances were a success as well as we were able to get the funds. As a general matter, assistance is readily available under the regulations of Bermuda, and also I do believe that is essential to tension, with respect to cold, seizing, as well as restraining possessions, including for matters relating to terrorism and terrorism funding.

However it needs to be kept in mind that loss support is not limited to what is allowed under Bermuda's residential legislation. With respect to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not surrender a specific agency of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist domestically. But again, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug offense cases.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. Let me just ask the general inquiry, and also any type of among you can respond to it. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's a stipulation that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can reject cooperation in funding instances. We recognize, I recognize that, so I'm not being essential of that provision being consisted of in there.

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Are we impeded as a result of that or is there a method in which we are able to work together under this treaty, even in those cases? Mr. Chairman, we believe and we wish we still would be able to coordinate.

We have that experience with other nations that have actually placed comparable interpretations on the mutual lawful help duties, and we've been able to function out plans in a number of instances that allow us to obtain evidence or review whether the proof is considerable enough to go ahead with some kind of additional actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I could simply contribute to that, one of the reasons this treaty took as lengthy it did to negotiate as well as wrap up is because it was essential to us to ensure that there had not been a specific limitation on support in resources instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. And also that means we assume that helps preserve the concept that is essential to us, that such cooperation must be available, irrespective of the type of situation. And we think this has actually also substantiated with some various other countries, where also with comparable concerns about cooperation in funding cases, they have, for example, had the ability to supply assistance to the nonpenalty phase of a test or another party examination.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to deny collaboration where the United States criminal justice system is seeking resources punishment? Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not provide support in situations that are contrary to public plan or their necessary rate of interests, and they have actually informed us that they interpret that to enable them, in death charge cases, to exercise that.

Legislator Cardin. I recognize that. I just intended to make it clear that they would not be a violation of the treaty. We comprehend their analysis, that if there was a case pending here that we required their assistance, where, clearly, the prosecutors were seeking the capital punishment, Bermuda can choose not to coordinate under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I can state, Mr. Chairman, importantly, the treaty would need, considering that this would certainly be a denial under Write-up 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be examinations with the United States, prior to that denial might go ahead. As well as I assume that's an essential element of the negotiation that Mr.

Instead of having an explicit arrangement, this is just one of a collection of conditions under which support may be refuted after examination, and, to name a few things, that there must be consideration regarding whether support can be provided, based on such conditions as the asked for nation deems necessary. And also our experience in that respect has been that we frequently can locate appropriate assurances to allow evidence to be produced, a minimum of for initial evaluation of the importance of evidence in the instance generally.

And also I believe that would certainly be helpful for us to have that info in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest work here, given that this arrangement was previously authorized by this board. As I said in my opening, we approved it also late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any kind of substantial modifications in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda because last November when you gave statement on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen considering that last November is a rise in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can offer you a couple of examples.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a major hotel in Kigali. As well as, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the nation's growing friendliness industry. I would certainly claim that, offered this pattern of raised financial investment, that it is essential that the defenses be managed for them.

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financiers. Senator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You likewise discussed the truth that the United States is discovering various other reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. I think you stated one various other nation. I think we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show to us various other nations that the United States has revealed interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been told by the staff that I need to ask the inquiry of whether the management still sustains the Senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Legislator Cardin.



I think that finishes the examining. I do value your patience with the board and also thank you very much for your testament today.

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As set out listed below, we would certainly like to offer upgraded information on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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As well as I believe that would certainly be handy for us to have that details in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We would certainly be happy to supply that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job right here, given that this contract was formerly approved by this committee. As I said in my opening, we authorized it far too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any significant changes in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda given that last November when you offered testimony on this treaty? What we have seen given that last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can provide you a few examples.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a significant resort in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to assist in the country's expanding hospitality sector. So I would state that, offered this pattern of enhanced investment, that it is important that the protections be afforded for them.

You additionally mentioned the reality that the United States is discovering various other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have five current bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us other nations that the United States has shown rate of interest in negotiating treaties?

I believe that completes the examining. I do appreciate your patience with the committee as well as thank you really much for your statement today.

As set out below, we would such as to give upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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